Maybe you shouldn't be such a tight ass and support the music industry and the artists
that you so lovingly wank over by PURCHASING a copy. 

Last time I checked, react wasn't sharing bonkers 11... Tell me if that has changed? 

Come talk to me about practicing what you preach when you are paying $20 for a song, and
you buy around 7 a week.  Yes once upon a time I owned many mp3s, I have since deleted
them and will never play a song that I do not own on hard plastic.  Producing hard dance
records probably isn't as lucrative as you think.  I for one want to keep hearing the top
quality music being released.  In the end, it's your scene, and you are only ruining it
for yourselves.  Nothing personal, I mean we have all done it, but if sprout off so much
about how you love hixxy's mix, or you love scott brown, then why are you DOWNLOADING a
full ripped cd?  These guys put in a lot of hard work to put these together.  If you're
downloading the whole cd, you're not really samleing it are you?  What ever happened to
going into your music store and listing to the cd to sample it?  I spend roughly $180 a
week on music, yet you're not willing to spend a mere $45 on a one off??  Why don't you
spend less money on your internet connection?

I'm sure if you made a living off producing music, you would see it very differently. 
Something that you may have put your heart and soul into being ripped and flogged around
for nothing???  It would be the same if you were say, a builder... You build a house and
then someone comes along and sees this freshly built house and starts living in it
without your permission or paying you any money.  I'm sure that you would be really happy
about that!

Peeps, if you like the industry support it!  If you don't think the cd is good enough to
buy, then why burn it? 

Well I for one love Bonkers XI and went out and bought it on the weekend!!  Gotta love
Scott Brown's mix as well as Sharkey's!!
Go out and buy it TW!! 

I don't need to pay apra licencing, I am not a promoter or event organizer.

So tell me, if you have downloaded a cd... Perhaps you don't like it enough to buy it. 
Do you destroy the copy that you downloaded.  Do you burn copies for your friends?  I
don't expect a truthful answer, and even if you do go through those measures, how many
others would do such a thing?  Very few I suspect.

But why is it still 'right' to download an entire cd for sampling purposes?  Can you not
go to your cd store and listen to it?

I realise that you cannot allways listen to the desired cd as a copy is not always on
hand.  So you can nit pick over instances there.

The point that I am making is this...

HomeWrekker:  Bonkers 11... anyone got it yet, I reccomend that you go purchase it!

Trance_Wizard: ill download it from soul seek! at 1.5mb/sec it should take 10mins. :D

Sounds to me like you had no intention to purchase this to me.  Keep it real, don't try
to bullshit around by saying that the music industy are the bad guys because of "PLURP." 
We can all see that you are just trying to justify what I and many others see as an
illegal and industry harming activity.

What do other people think around here?  If you think that people should be able to
download for free, speak up!  But please back it up.

If you think that it is  not the right thing... as above. 

Do you do mix tapes and pass them onto people??? Did those people you gave the mix CD's
pay for the tracks you put on the CD??? Um are you sure you are not inadvertantly
supporting filesharing??? I am under the understanding that there is copyright on the
vinyl you buy same as there is on the CD's????

Anybody out there got a Homewrekka CD/tape???? :-D 

A valid point Custa.  The role of a dj is something that I don't believe that there is a
straight answer for.  I for one put together a mix cd to showcase my mixing techniques
and my skills as what I percieve as an artist.  The whole idea of a dj being an artist is
a very clouded issue in itself...  After all, I am just a person playing someone elses
music.  Through my outlook, I am trying to create new music through other peoples music
by keymixing, sampling, morphing and equalising.  The truth is that people can argue
about the credibilty of a dj as an artist until the cows come home.  As far as I am aware
I am not in breach of any copyright laws as I am giving people these cds for no money. 
But then the laws around this are very shady also.

The original producers themselves are also guilty of your aformentioned, inadvertant file
sharing because alot of dance music involves sampling from other music.

This is why I see a dj mix cd and dance music production as a very different thing from
blatently copying someone elses work exactly.  After all, I put my own hard work into my
mix cds to make them original and sound different from the orginal songs.

What do you think Custa?  In fact what does everyone think?  This could be an interesting
discussion. 

HW Said > "As far as I am aware I am not in breach of any copyright laws as I am giving
people these cds for no money. But then the laws around this are very shady also. "

Actually the laws are very cut and dry, no grey area here at all. You are aiding and
abetting in piracy HW. It is not for you to decide what is legal and not in relation to
the original artists work, maybe they do not have complete rights to samples etc they
have used but you are still infringing on what rights they have in place.

YOU ARE HELPING PEOPLE STEAL MUSIC BY GIVING IT AWAY. The fact that you are "giving away"
what you put on CD is no consequence. You are breaching the copyright holders rights. How
much filesharing out there is there that somebody makes money from? There has been a
number of court cases in Aus over the past 18 months in relation to this including Nick
Fish going down for doing exactly what you say you are doing except he was charging for
them (well actually it was the Downundergound collection and not nessicarily Nick
personally, but he ended up in court along with others over it). Then there was recently
the 3-4 students in Sydney that went to court.

You come down pretty harsh on Ray there, got up on your high horse but forgot to take
stock of what you are doing yourself, yet you are just as guilty yourself on this one.

Remember this is a public forum and you have just admitted in a publlic forum to pirating
as much as anybody else here with your statements. 

Again, I agree that you have very valid points there, but I consider a free dj mix cd very
different from straight copying.

What I define as a dj mix cd is not just one song placed after another either.  It is
what I consider a form of artistry in its own right.  Like I said some disagree some
agree.  So in the end, I consider my mix cd to be my art, with my own style and
influences.

Some one copying a cd is taking someone elses art form and duplicating it.  So, what is
the point of differenciation between a copy and an original form of art?  I don't have
the answer, do you?  So yes, this would appear to be a rather 'grey area.'  Something to
be decided by the courts, case by case.  This is how the legal system has been designed.

I make reference to the circumstances surrounding the verve and their song, "bittersweet
symphony."  Some of the original content was licenced off the rolling stones.  The verve
paid 100% of their royalties, but when the album was selling extremely well the rolling
stones claimed that the verve used too much of their song.  Arguably this claim was
driven by the wish to make more money.  So, who created the verve's song?  Was it The
Verve, or the rolling stones?  My belief is that the Verve recreated the song and own
their own version.  Some would disagree, it turns out that Mick Jagger and Keith Richards
of the Rolling Stones were nominated at the grammys for a song done by the verve.  Sounds
very confusing doesn't it!  Personally, if the verve made that song well enough to
produce, and that made that song well enough to be their own, don't they deserve the
credit?

I know that this is a little off the topic, but it is meant to point out the differences
between copying and making something new.  I concede that some of my works on cd may be
considered as file sharing, but I would rather consider myself as a new form of artist.

What do you consider yourself Custa?  A copier or an artist? 

Also Custa, do you agree that people sould be able to download full cds off the internet? 
Time to get off the fence. 

You are trying to allude to me doing the same thing as you? How many people do you know of
with mixed tapes of mine??? 

My point was that you tore shreds off of TW in a pubic forum yet you do the exact same
thing yourself. Mind you it is stupid of TW to have said what he said on a public forum.

If you wanna talk about things being tested in court, well news flash it has all already
been tested. There is no grey area at all. It is a crime, the only things to be
determined are if you are guilty or not and what the punishment is if you are found
guilty. If you are so confident that what you are doing is all 100% legal and above board
can I suggest that you go sit down in front of the APRA offices and give your CD's away to
everybody that walks past, and make sure you send me an invite to the trial so I can see
the procedings first hand.

My beliefs are not the issue here atm so I can sit wherever I want on the issue, I was
not the one jumping up and down over what TW said only to be caught out. My issue was
with the hypocrisy on here.

Personally I work in the design/IT industry so I know about copyright and licensing. I
have friends that are artists producing music and have had stuff stolen in relation to
the court cases in Australia. So I know and have seen things from both sides of the
fence. For my businesses sake I have to stay 100% legal. For artists and distributors I
want to stay 100% legal.

Where I stand on the issue I share with those I choose.

As far as your ramblings about being an artist..... sheesh, mate I am just a guy that
loves a certain style of music that is lucky enough to sometimes share it with others.
It's nice to see some people take something away from what I do but if nobody does the
world will keep spinnin, at no time will I claim any of it to be mine.